[dojo-contributors] what is the raison detre for dojo 2.0.

Sasha Firsov suns at firsov.net
Thu Oct 11 16:33:34 EDT 2012

>     The development patterns used for "simple" developer and
>     "enterprise" not just different but mutually exclusive. That is
>     what I tried to say.
> Indeed, you are entirely wrong about this.  There is nothing mutually 
> exclusive about it.
It is. And we have proven history in favor of "enterprise":
- chaining was dismissed in multiple cases due to extra "return this;" 
in each call. Do not say that chaining could not be *more* than used 
than now...
- variable function signatures. I.e. ability to pass arguments of 
different types, intelligent defaults, etc. Was cut off due to 
performance reasons.
- packages with dot notion in favor of AMD.
The list is bigger, it is just what came to mind first.

I am not sure how to make clear that friendly to developer and proper 
for "enterprize" are essentially different requirements.
If you could recall I have been backing some kind of compromise by 
introducing aspects earlier days and API facade recently. But those just 
confirm how the "enterprise" requirements dominating in DTK decisions.

> While I don't like your dichotomy between "simple" and "enterprise" 
> developers (since in my experience most enterprise developers are 
> actually one step above what you term as simple), I'll put it this 
> way: *both* sets of developers are looking for one thing.  A simple 
> way to accomplish what they need to do in the quickest, simplest, 
> easiest ways possible.
You are wrong. There are many reasons further: reliable code, 
feature-rich complete code and UI, maintainability and so on.
And if you are not just a UI developer you would care about coding 
discipline, high-level patterns, integration with other tiers.
Among those "quickest, simplest, easiest ways" not just lost but removed 
as they going against good development practices.

I am not saying that your reasons are not valid. They just belong to 
"simple" approach. And I do not see the ability to sneak it into DTK.

> I really don't understand where you're coming from on most of your 
> expressed opinions, but given my experience I am going to suspect that 
> almost all of your work has been in the enterprise environment.
> If I can make that assumption, then I think you are probably concerned 
> that we would do something stupid like weaken our principal marketing 
> strength; I can assure you that we will never do anything of the kind.
My background is on all edges: from solo and small few-pages apps in 
startups to enterprise. But when referencing the "enterprise" approach I 
have in mind the "enterprise" quality requirements, not large-sized 

Such requirements could be applied in any scale apps and teams.

> Again you are missing the forest for the trees.  Dojo Core AS IT 
> STANDS NOW is an excellent substitute for something like jQuery.  That 
> will not change (and indeed it can't, for the simple reason that it's 
> not possible to build something well like Dijit on top of it).  What I 
> am saying is Dojo 2.0 needs to be more-so.
I could see that you are backing creation of library for "simple" users. 
If succeed, it would not be DTK anymore. At least in my understanding of 
code and software design quality.

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