[dojo-contributors] what is the raison detre for dojo 2.0.

Ken Benjamin kenbenjamin at kenbenjamin.net
Thu Oct 11 12:25:02 EDT 2012


+1 to Tom



I think the one thing we are in agreement about is our target market,
Enterprise-grade Client-side Web Apps.



I also think we are in agreement that there plenty of room for Dojo and any
other toolkit that solves people’s problems and that Dojo does not need to
“win” or anything like that, only be a viable choice for people.



The fact is that Dojo can do what jQuery does and it should be simplified
and promoted, not ignored. We need not compete for the same customer but,
as someone who uses Wordpress (with jQuery) and Dojo for apps, it might be
nice to consider a single learning curve rather than two. Dojo can be that
more powerful alternative when I think I might want that in the future.



Once again, it’s these simple sites that are the nose under the tent. We
need to have Dojo be seen as a legitimate option in that space even as we
make that only a secondary aspect of our overall mission.



I’ll stop beating this horse now and I’m sorry if I provoked any
sensitivities.



Should this conversation move on to some specific features, as it seems to
have started to from time to time?



Ken B



*From:* dojo-contributors-bounces at mail.dojotoolkit.org [mailto:
dojo-contributors-bounces at mail.dojotoolkit.org] *On Behalf Of *Tom Trenka
*Sent:* Thursday, October 11, 2012 6:01 PM
*To:* dojo dev.
*Subject:* Re: [dojo-contributors] what is the raison detre for dojo 2.0.



Inline, but before I go inline just want to make it clear that I'm
personally not offended at all.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:41 AM, Colin Snover <
dojo-contributors at zetafleet.com> wrote:

We should not attempt to compete in the brochure site space.

We should not attempt to compete in the “helper library for a
PHP/RoR/Java server-side-rendered site” space.

Those areas are both well-served by jQuery and other more specialised
libraries, and frankly, I doubt anybody here is even interested in
working in those areas, so why they are the topic of discussion is
beyond me. Because we are weak there? Of course we are. It isn’t our
focus, others do it better already, and making Web *app* maintenance
easy precludes the sorts of API shortcuts that these other libraries
take. I’m not saying we should not look to other places for inspiration,
but it’s absurd to say Dojo must be great at everything, just as absurd
as the notion that jQuery or MooTools or YUI need to be great at everything.



I don't think that's what we're suggesting at all, outside of a marketing
perspective.  The fact of the matter is that we *already* have these
things, done in a way that is currently a little schizophrenic.  I use the
Dojo base all the time for things like brochureware sites; it was
structured in such a way to make that really easy to do, with all of the
tools I would need for it.



And I think any Core library should be fulfilling those needs, regardless.



What I *do* think is that we rarely promote Dojo Base/Nano that way, and
that might be something to consider--maybe a tutorial or two on getting
started with something like Dojo with Wordpress (as a quick example).



We should continue to be the best in the rich client-side application
space, since 1. that has been our focus for a long time, 2. it is where
we excel, 3. it is where the majority of contributors are invested in
their day-to-day work, and 4. it is a space that is still in need of our
experience and innovation.



No disagreement there at all; just saying that that is and will continue to
be built on top of a strong, streamlined core that we might try to market
by itself better.  From a personal standpoint, I find it really frustrating
when we get people coming in saying "How do I do this in Dojo" when they
are really talking about Dijit (as an example).



Regards--

Tom
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