[dojo-contributors] Dojo & Mobile - devs needed

Jared Jurkiewicz jared.jurkiewicz at gmail.com
Wed Oct 6 17:11:54 EDT 2010


Chart seems simple and fine to me.

-- Jared

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Eugene Lazutkin <eugene at lazutkin.com> wrote:
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> I like the idea, I don't like Chart2DMinimal. At the end of the day,
> when everything is deprecated and removed we will be stuck with
> Chart2DMinimal, which is long, and doesn't make any sense in the context
> without Chart2D.
>
> I propose "Chart". Do you like it? Do yuo hate it? Let me know --- this
> is exactly the right time for bikeshedding.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Eugene
>
> On 10/5/10 5:25 PM, Tom Elliott wrote:
>> I'm sure I'm missing something, but why not rename "Chart2D" to
>> "Chart2DMinimal" (or something snappier), remove all the requires (lines
>> 12 through 35), then have a new Chart2D that extends Chart2DMinimal
>> which includes all the existing requires.
>>
>> That way, the API will be consistent for anyone that doesn't care, and
>> anyone that does just dojo.require("Chart2DMinimal")'s and also requires
>> whichever plot and axis modules they want.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> On 5 October 2010 22:09, Eugene Lazutkin <eugene at lazutkin.com
>> <mailto:eugene at lazutkin.com>> wrote:
>>
>> There is one more thing I don't like in charting, and it will affect
>> mobile apps. Chart2D.js includes all possible axis objects (2 at the
>> moment), and all possible plots (20 at the moment). While it was okay in
>> the beginning and greatly reduced confusion of novices, it doesn't scale
>> going forward.
>>
>> We need to remove these references from Chart2D => user should require
>> plots and axes explicitly. While I know that this is the goal, I don't
>> know what is the good way to do it, because this change, while trivial,
>> is not backward compatible. I don't want to alienate users. Good plan is
>> needed for this transition.
>>
>> Thoughts? Ideas?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Eugene Lazutkin
>> Dojo Toolkit, Committer
>> http://lazutkin.com/
>>
>> On 10/05/2010 12:35 PM, Eugene Lazutkin wrote:
>>> Events are more-or-less decoupled from the drawing code. Let me know,
>>> what events you want supported and I'll add them.
>>
>>> I know that touch events are inaccurate, and it is hard select small
>>> items. If there are any UI paradigms that are more suitable for mobile
>>> --- again I am completely open to new ideas.
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>
>>> Eugene Lazutkin
>>> http://lazutkin.com/
>>
>>
>>> On 10/05/2010 11:22 AM, Tom Trenka wrote:
>>>> This is true, event handling on mobile is definitely not there for
>>>> Charting; IIRC there also may be some issues with Canvas and text but
>>>> Eugene would remember that better than I would.
>>
>>>> I *could* see a set of custom plotters that are aimed at the mobile
>>>> platform, though...
>>
>>>> -- Tom
>>
>>>> 2010/10/5 Tom Elliott <mrtom at cantab.net <mailto:mrtom at cantab.net>
>> <mailto:mrtom at cantab.net <mailto:mrtom at cantab.net>>>
>>
>>>>
>> http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dojox/charting/tests/test_DataSeries.html
>> shows
>>>>     the charts fine on my iPhone fwiw.
>>
>>>>     However, whilst the charts themselves might work fine there are
>>>>     going to be some UX problems with tooltips that show when
>> hovering a
>>>>     data point. In the examples above clicking on the columns and pie
>>>>     segments shows the tooltips and works well, but it's really
>> hard to
>>>>     click on the nodes in the line chart (and if I didn't know
>> they were
>>>>     there I'd never have found them).
>>
>>>>     A mobile charting module might help here by defining an area to
>>>>     display the tooltip text and allowing swiping between the points?
>>>>     Not sure if that would want to become part of the module or
>> an extra
>>>>     component, just a thought.
>>
>>>>     Tom
>>
>>
>>>>     On 5 October 2010 16:52, Shane O'Sullivan
>> <shaneosullivan1 at gmail.com <mailto:shaneosullivan1 at gmail.com>
>>>>     <mailto:shaneosullivan1 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:shaneosullivan1 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>         There are some limitations, e.g. some platforms don't support
>>>>         gradients, but it should, in general, look fine.
>>
>>>>         2010/10/5 Tom Trenka <ttrenka at gmail.com
>> <mailto:ttrenka at gmail.com> <mailto:ttrenka at gmail.com
>> <mailto:ttrenka at gmail.com>>>:
>>>>         > Charting will run just fine on anything supporting SVG or
>>>>         Canvas on mobile
>>>>         > as is; I don't know that we'd need anything special for
>> mobile.
>>>>         > -- Tom
>>>>         >
>>>>         > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Adam L. Peller
>>>>         <adam at peller.org <mailto:adam at peller.org>
>> <mailto:adam at peller.org <mailto:adam at peller.org>>> wrote:
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >> How far is dojox.charting from running on mobile?  I'd be
>>>>         thrilled if
>>>>         >> we didn't have to fork the codebases for dojox.mobile.
>>  wrt
>>>>         grid, I
>>>>         >> wonder if a simple pagination widget based on the new
>> data stores
>>>>         >> would be sufficient?  Code size here would be a major
>> factor.
>>>>          Such a
>>>>         >> light widget could also be popular on the desktop.
>>  Perhaps
>>>>         this fits
>>>>         >> into the new grid architecture, but I worry that it
>> would be
>>>>         difficult
>>>>         >> to meet conflicting goals of code size and flexibility.
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >> -Adam
>>>>         >>
>>>>         >> 2010/10/5 Evan Huang <evanhuangwei at gmail.com
>> <mailto:evanhuangwei at gmail.com>
>>>>         <mailto:evanhuangwei at gmail.com
>> <mailto:evanhuangwei at gmail.com>>>:
>>>>         >> > Hi Shane,
>>>>         >> > Recalling this thread, I just got some new thoughts,
>> please
>>>>         correct me
>>>>         >> > if
>>>>         >> > any inappropriateness(sorry for getting back late as
>> I only
>>>>         recently got
>>>>         >> > a
>>>>         >> > chance to explore the emerging mobile world):
>>>>         >> > So how about adding following two pieces to our mobile
>>>>         plan? If possible
>>>>         >> > I'd
>>>>         >> > like to spend my partial time on them after
>> v.1.6(will need
>>>>         to get
>>>>         >> > support
>>>>         >> > from my boss ;-) )
>>>>         >> > 1. dojox.mobile.Gird
>>>>         >> > 2. dojox.mobile.Charting
>>>>         >> > I think both of them are very important to mobile, will
>>>>         help us catch up
>>>>         >> > and
>>>>         >> > may also help make dojox.mobile outstanding(at least I
>>>>         haven't seen any
>>>>         >> > similar activities yet in JQTouch, ShenCha...)
>>>>         >> > For #1, we may try to leverage the in-progress new Grid
>>>>         work to figure
>>>>         >> > out a
>>>>         >> > lightweight mobile version(still = core + a smaller
>> set of
>>>>         features)
>>>>         >> > For #2, more discussions are still needed, but since
>> we've
>>>>         already got
>>>>         >> > an
>>>>         >> > excellent dojox.charting framework, we may start by
>> reusing
>>>>         the canvas
>>>>         >> > impl
>>>>         >> > with possible changes to make it more suitable for
>> mobile.
>>>>         >> > It's still not clear yet but I hope we could reuse most
>>>>         corresponding
>>>>         >> > code
>>>>         >> > in desktop version for #1 and #2. Once
>>>>         the interesting touch & gesture
>>>>         >> > event
>>>>         >> > layer were ready, we can then plug it in since HTML
>> event
>>>>         handling is
>>>>         >> > already separately encapsulated in new Grid(FIXME - the
>>>>         same for
>>>>         >> > Charting?)
>>>>         >> > As discussed previously, in the future we may have
>> two typical
>>>>         >> > usage scenario for dojox.mobile:
>>>>         >> >     1. Within html page in mobile browsers
>>>>         >> >     2. Run as native app in mobile(with help from
>> some cool
>>>>         tools like
>>>>         >> > PhoneGap),
>>>>         >> > I'm optimistic that mobile Grid & Charting will
>> apply well
>>>>         for the both
>>>>         >> > cases.
>>>>         >> > Most importantly, since mobile Grid & Charting both
>> require
>>>>         significant
>>>>         >> > efforts, we really need to ensure they worth the
>> investment
>>>>         before hand.
>>>>         >> > At last, following below are some existing mobile
>>>>         chartings, though most
>>>>         >> > of
>>>>         >> > them are still native app specific to a certain
>> platform, I
>>>>         think we can
>>>>         >> > get
>>>>         >> > some inspiration anyway.
>>>>         >> > http://designingwebinterfaces.com/mobile_chart_options
>>>>         >> >
>> http://www.zingchart.com/flash-and-html5-canvas/#compatibility
>>>>         >> > http://www.keepedge.com/
>>>>         >> > http://code.google.com/p/core-plot/
>>>>         >> > http://code.google.com/p/s7graphview/
>>>>         >> > http://www.componentone.com/SuperProducts/StudioMobile/
>>>>         >> > http://www.artfulbits.com/Android/aiCharts.aspx
>>>>         >> > http://www.tmssoftware.com/site/mobilechart.asp
>>>>         >> >
>> http://www.igindex.co.uk/spread-betting/mobile-charts.html
>>>>         >> > Regards!
>>>>         >> > - Evan
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> >
>>>>         >> > On 8/18/10 12:43 AM, Shane O'Sullivan wrote:
>>>>         >> >> Hi all,
>>>>         >> >>
>>>>         >> >> I'm very worried about Dojo and the mobile space.
>>  As far
>>>>         as I can
>>>>         >> >> see, we are still lacking anything resembling a
>> cohesive
>>>>         strategy, and
>>>>         >> >> are falling further and further behind.
>>>>         >> >>
>>>>         >> >> I appreciate that everyone is busy, and that this
>> economy
>>>>         is forcing
>>>>         >> >> everyone, me included, to focus on their day jobs.
>>>>          However, unless
>>>>         >> >> enough people are interested in making Dojo a killer on
>>>>         mobile, and
>>>>         >> >> have the time to donate, we might as well just
>> admit we're
>>>>         going to
>>>>         >> >> focus on desktop and leave it be.
>>>>         >> >>
>>>>         >> >> I think dojox.mobile is a great start, and I very much
>>>>         want to make it
>>>>         >> >> (under whatever moniker) the best mobile toolkit out
>>>>         there.  The work
>>>>         >> >> the Uxebu guys are doing to customize Dojo for each
>>>>         platform is great
>>>>         >> >> too, and very much needed.
>>>>         >> >>
>>>>         >> >> However, what users want is a solid framework and great
>>>>         widgets.  We
>>>>         >> >> don't have them yet, and at the current rate, I don't
>>>>         think we will
>>>>         >> >> have them this side of 2012.
>>>>         >> >>
>>>>         >> >> So, I'm willing to put a good amount of my time into
>>>>         dojox.mobile, but
>>>>         >> >> unless others have time to contribute it'll never be
>>>>         anything close to
>>>>         >> >> world class.  At the recent London mobile meet we
>> had a good
>>>>         >> >> discussion about where Dojo should go, but
>> unfortunately
>>>>         no one
>>>>         >> >> offered to actually write code for dojox.mobile.
>>>>         >> >>
>>>>         >> >> Can I get a show of hands?  Alternatively, a simple "I
>>>>         don't have the
>>>>         >> >> time" will do too.  I need to know if I'll be
>> wasting my
>>>>         time on a
>>>>         >> >> project that no one else has time to work on, or if
>> there
>>>>         are 4 or 5
>>>>         >> >> others who have the scope to build something great.
>>>>         >> >>
>>>>         >> >> Thanks
>>>>         >> >>
>>>>         >> >> Shane
>>>>         >> >> _______________________________________________
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