[dojo-contributors] Dojo & Mobile - devs needed

Dylan Schiemann dylan at dojotoolkit.org
Tue Oct 5 20:12:49 EDT 2010


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DojoX doesn't not guarantee backwards-compat, and this is a much needed
change in my opinion. That said, Tom Elliott's suggestion isn't bad either.

Regards,
- -Dylan

on 10/5/10 3:25 PM (GMT-07:00) Tom Elliott said the following:
> I'm sure I'm missing something, but why not rename "Chart2D" to
> "Chart2DMinimal" (or something snappier), remove all the requires (lines
> 12 through 35), then have a new Chart2D that extends Chart2DMinimal
> which includes all the existing requires.
> 
> That way, the API will be consistent for anyone that doesn't care, and
> anyone that does just dojo.require("Chart2DMinimal")'s and also requires
> whichever plot and axis modules they want.
> 
> ?
> 
> On 5 October 2010 22:09, Eugene Lazutkin <eugene at lazutkin.com
> <mailto:eugene at lazutkin.com>> wrote:
> 
> There is one more thing I don't like in charting, and it will affect
> mobile apps. Chart2D.js includes all possible axis objects (2 at the
> moment), and all possible plots (20 at the moment). While it was okay in
> the beginning and greatly reduced confusion of novices, it doesn't scale
> going forward.
> 
> We need to remove these references from Chart2D => user should require
> plots and axes explicitly. While I know that this is the goal, I don't
> know what is the good way to do it, because this change, while trivial,
> is not backward compatible. I don't want to alienate users. Good plan is
> needed for this transition.
> 
> Thoughts? Ideas?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Eugene Lazutkin
> Dojo Toolkit, Committer
> http://lazutkin.com/
> 
> On 10/05/2010 12:35 PM, Eugene Lazutkin wrote:
>> Events are more-or-less decoupled from the drawing code. Let me know,
>> what events you want supported and I'll add them.
> 
>> I know that touch events are inaccurate, and it is hard select small
>> items. If there are any UI paradigms that are more suitable for mobile
>> --- again I am completely open to new ideas.
> 
>> Cheers,
> 
>> Eugene Lazutkin
>> http://lazutkin.com/
> 
> 
>> On 10/05/2010 11:22 AM, Tom Trenka wrote:
>>> This is true, event handling on mobile is definitely not there for
>>> Charting; IIRC there also may be some issues with Canvas and text but
>>> Eugene would remember that better than I would.
> 
>>> I *could* see a set of custom plotters that are aimed at the mobile
>>> platform, though...
> 
>>> -- Tom
> 
>>> 2010/10/5 Tom Elliott <mrtom at cantab.net <mailto:mrtom at cantab.net>
> <mailto:mrtom at cantab.net <mailto:mrtom at cantab.net>>>
> 
>>>    
> http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dojox/charting/tests/test_DataSeries.html
> shows
>>>     the charts fine on my iPhone fwiw.
> 
>>>     However, whilst the charts themselves might work fine there are
>>>     going to be some UX problems with tooltips that show when
> hovering a
>>>     data point. In the examples above clicking on the columns and pie
>>>     segments shows the tooltips and works well, but it's really
> hard to
>>>     click on the nodes in the line chart (and if I didn't know
> they were
>>>     there I'd never have found them).
> 
>>>     A mobile charting module might help here by defining an area to
>>>     display the tooltip text and allowing swiping between the points?
>>>     Not sure if that would want to become part of the module or
> an extra
>>>     component, just a thought.
> 
>>>     Tom
> 
> 
>>>     On 5 October 2010 16:52, Shane O'Sullivan
> <shaneosullivan1 at gmail.com <mailto:shaneosullivan1 at gmail.com>
>>>     <mailto:shaneosullivan1 at gmail.com
> <mailto:shaneosullivan1 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> 
>>>         There are some limitations, e.g. some platforms don't support
>>>         gradients, but it should, in general, look fine.
> 
>>>         2010/10/5 Tom Trenka <ttrenka at gmail.com
> <mailto:ttrenka at gmail.com> <mailto:ttrenka at gmail.com
> <mailto:ttrenka at gmail.com>>>:
>>>         > Charting will run just fine on anything supporting SVG or
>>>         Canvas on mobile
>>>         > as is; I don't know that we'd need anything special for
> mobile.
>>>         > -- Tom
>>>         >
>>>         > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Adam L. Peller
>>>         <adam at peller.org <mailto:adam at peller.org>
> <mailto:adam at peller.org <mailto:adam at peller.org>>> wrote:
>>>         >>
>>>         >> How far is dojox.charting from running on mobile?  I'd be
>>>         thrilled if
>>>         >> we didn't have to fork the codebases for dojox.mobile.
>  wrt
>>>         grid, I
>>>         >> wonder if a simple pagination widget based on the new
> data stores
>>>         >> would be sufficient?  Code size here would be a major
> factor.
>>>          Such a
>>>         >> light widget could also be popular on the desktop.
>  Perhaps
>>>         this fits
>>>         >> into the new grid architecture, but I worry that it
> would be
>>>         difficult
>>>         >> to meet conflicting goals of code size and flexibility.
>>>         >>
>>>         >> -Adam
>>>         >>
>>>         >> 2010/10/5 Evan Huang <evanhuangwei at gmail.com
> <mailto:evanhuangwei at gmail.com>
>>>         <mailto:evanhuangwei at gmail.com
> <mailto:evanhuangwei at gmail.com>>>:
>>>         >> > Hi Shane,
>>>         >> > Recalling this thread, I just got some new thoughts,
> please
>>>         correct me
>>>         >> > if
>>>         >> > any inappropriateness(sorry for getting back late as
> I only
>>>         recently got
>>>         >> > a
>>>         >> > chance to explore the emerging mobile world):
>>>         >> > So how about adding following two pieces to our mobile
>>>         plan? If possible
>>>         >> > I'd
>>>         >> > like to spend my partial time on them after
> v.1.6(will need
>>>         to get
>>>         >> > support
>>>         >> > from my boss ;-) )
>>>         >> > 1. dojox.mobile.Gird
>>>         >> > 2. dojox.mobile.Charting
>>>         >> > I think both of them are very important to mobile, will
>>>         help us catch up
>>>         >> > and
>>>         >> > may also help make dojox.mobile outstanding(at least I
>>>         haven't seen any
>>>         >> > similar activities yet in JQTouch, ShenCha...)
>>>         >> > For #1, we may try to leverage the in-progress new Grid
>>>         work to figure
>>>         >> > out a
>>>         >> > lightweight mobile version(still = core + a smaller
> set of
>>>         features)
>>>         >> > For #2, more discussions are still needed, but since
> we've
>>>         already got
>>>         >> > an
>>>         >> > excellent dojox.charting framework, we may start by
> reusing
>>>         the canvas
>>>         >> > impl
>>>         >> > with possible changes to make it more suitable for
> mobile.
>>>         >> > It's still not clear yet but I hope we could reuse most
>>>         corresponding
>>>         >> > code
>>>         >> > in desktop version for #1 and #2. Once
>>>         the interesting touch & gesture
>>>         >> > event
>>>         >> > layer were ready, we can then plug it in since HTML
> event
>>>         handling is
>>>         >> > already separately encapsulated in new Grid(FIXME - the
>>>         same for
>>>         >> > Charting?)
>>>         >> > As discussed previously, in the future we may have
> two typical
>>>         >> > usage scenario for dojox.mobile:
>>>         >> >     1. Within html page in mobile browsers
>>>         >> >     2. Run as native app in mobile(with help from
> some cool
>>>         tools like
>>>         >> > PhoneGap),
>>>         >> > I'm optimistic that mobile Grid & Charting will
> apply well
>>>         for the both
>>>         >> > cases.
>>>         >> > Most importantly, since mobile Grid & Charting both
> require
>>>         significant
>>>         >> > efforts, we really need to ensure they worth the
> investment
>>>         before hand.
>>>         >> > At last, following below are some existing mobile
>>>         chartings, though most
>>>         >> > of
>>>         >> > them are still native app specific to a certain
> platform, I
>>>         think we can
>>>         >> > get
>>>         >> > some inspiration anyway.
>>>         >> > http://designingwebinterfaces.com/mobile_chart_options
>>>         >> >
> http://www.zingchart.com/flash-and-html5-canvas/#compatibility
>>>         >> > http://www.keepedge.com/
>>>         >> > http://code.google.com/p/core-plot/
>>>         >> > http://code.google.com/p/s7graphview/
>>>         >> > http://www.componentone.com/SuperProducts/StudioMobile/
>>>         >> > http://www.artfulbits.com/Android/aiCharts.aspx
>>>         >> > http://www.tmssoftware.com/site/mobilechart.asp
>>>         >> >
> http://www.igindex.co.uk/spread-betting/mobile-charts.html
>>>         >> > Regards!
>>>         >> > - Evan
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> >
>>>         >> > On 8/18/10 12:43 AM, Shane O'Sullivan wrote:
>>>         >> >> Hi all,
>>>         >> >>
>>>         >> >> I'm very worried about Dojo and the mobile space.
>  As far
>>>         as I can
>>>         >> >> see, we are still lacking anything resembling a
> cohesive
>>>         strategy, and
>>>         >> >> are falling further and further behind.
>>>         >> >>
>>>         >> >> I appreciate that everyone is busy, and that this
> economy
>>>         is forcing
>>>         >> >> everyone, me included, to focus on their day jobs.
>>>          However, unless
>>>         >> >> enough people are interested in making Dojo a killer on
>>>         mobile, and
>>>         >> >> have the time to donate, we might as well just
> admit we're
>>>         going to
>>>         >> >> focus on desktop and leave it be.
>>>         >> >>
>>>         >> >> I think dojox.mobile is a great start, and I very much
>>>         want to make it
>>>         >> >> (under whatever moniker) the best mobile toolkit out
>>>         there.  The work
>>>         >> >> the Uxebu guys are doing to customize Dojo for each
>>>         platform is great
>>>         >> >> too, and very much needed.
>>>         >> >>
>>>         >> >> However, what users want is a solid framework and great
>>>         widgets.  We
>>>         >> >> don't have them yet, and at the current rate, I don't
>>>         think we will
>>>         >> >> have them this side of 2012.
>>>         >> >>
>>>         >> >> So, I'm willing to put a good amount of my time into
>>>         dojox.mobile, but
>>>         >> >> unless others have time to contribute it'll never be
>>>         anything close to
>>>         >> >> world class.  At the recent London mobile meet we
> had a good
>>>         >> >> discussion about where Dojo should go, but
> unfortunately
>>>         no one
>>>         >> >> offered to actually write code for dojox.mobile.
>>>         >> >>
>>>         >> >> Can I get a show of hands?  Alternatively, a simple "I
>>>         don't have the
>>>         >> >> time" will do too.  I need to know if I'll be
> wasting my
>>>         time on a
>>>         >> >> project that no one else has time to work on, or if
> there
>>>         are 4 or 5
>>>         >> >> others who have the scope to build something great.
>>>         >> >>
>>>         >> >> Thanks
>>>         >> >>
>>>         >> >> Shane
>>>         >> >> _______________________________________________
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