[dojo-contributors] Dojo & Mobile - devs needed

Tom Elliott mrtom at cantab.net
Tue Oct 5 18:25:02 EDT 2010


I'm sure I'm missing something, but why not rename "Chart2D" to
"Chart2DMinimal" (or something snappier), remove all the requires (lines 12
through 35), then have a new Chart2D that extends Chart2DMinimal which
includes all the existing requires.

That way, the API will be consistent for anyone that doesn't care, and
anyone that does just dojo.require("Chart2DMinimal")'s and also requires
whichever plot and axis modules they want.

?

On 5 October 2010 22:09, Eugene Lazutkin <eugene at lazutkin.com> wrote:

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> There is one more thing I don't like in charting, and it will affect
> mobile apps. Chart2D.js includes all possible axis objects (2 at the
> moment), and all possible plots (20 at the moment). While it was okay in
> the beginning and greatly reduced confusion of novices, it doesn't scale
> going forward.
>
> We need to remove these references from Chart2D => user should require
> plots and axes explicitly. While I know that this is the goal, I don't
> know what is the good way to do it, because this change, while trivial,
> is not backward compatible. I don't want to alienate users. Good plan is
> needed for this transition.
>
> Thoughts? Ideas?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Eugene Lazutkin
> Dojo Toolkit, Committer
> http://lazutkin.com/
>
> On 10/05/2010 12:35 PM, Eugene Lazutkin wrote:
> > Events are more-or-less decoupled from the drawing code. Let me know,
> > what events you want supported and I'll add them.
> >
> > I know that touch events are inaccurate, and it is hard select small
> > items. If there are any UI paradigms that are more suitable for mobile
> > --- again I am completely open to new ideas.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Eugene Lazutkin
> > http://lazutkin.com/
> >
> >
> > On 10/05/2010 11:22 AM, Tom Trenka wrote:
> >> This is true, event handling on mobile is definitely not there for
> >> Charting; IIRC there also may be some issues with Canvas and text but
> >> Eugene would remember that better than I would.
> >
> >> I *could* see a set of custom plotters that are aimed at the mobile
> >> platform, though...
> >
> >> -- Tom
> >
> >> 2010/10/5 Tom Elliott <mrtom at cantab.net <mailto:mrtom at cantab.net>>
> >
> >>
> http://archive.dojotoolkit.org/nightly/dojotoolkit/dojox/charting/tests/test_DataSeries.htmlshows
> >>     the charts fine on my iPhone fwiw.
> >
> >>     However, whilst the charts themselves might work fine there are
> >>     going to be some UX problems with tooltips that show when hovering a
> >>     data point. In the examples above clicking on the columns and pie
> >>     segments shows the tooltips and works well, but it's really hard to
> >>     click on the nodes in the line chart (and if I didn't know they were
> >>     there I'd never have found them).
> >
> >>     A mobile charting module might help here by defining an area to
> >>     display the tooltip text and allowing swiping between the points?
> >>     Not sure if that would want to become part of the module or an extra
> >>     component, just a thought.
> >
> >>     Tom
> >
> >
> >>     On 5 October 2010 16:52, Shane O'Sullivan <
> shaneosullivan1 at gmail.com
> >>     <mailto:shaneosullivan1 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >>         There are some limitations, e.g. some platforms don't support
> >>         gradients, but it should, in general, look fine.
> >
> >>         2010/10/5 Tom Trenka <ttrenka at gmail.com <mailto:
> ttrenka at gmail.com>>:
> >>         > Charting will run just fine on anything supporting SVG or
> >>         Canvas on mobile
> >>         > as is; I don't know that we'd need anything special for
> mobile.
> >>         > -- Tom
> >>         >
> >>         > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Adam L. Peller
> >>         <adam at peller.org <mailto:adam at peller.org>> wrote:
> >>         >>
> >>         >> How far is dojox.charting from running on mobile?  I'd be
> >>         thrilled if
> >>         >> we didn't have to fork the codebases for dojox.mobile.  wrt
> >>         grid, I
> >>         >> wonder if a simple pagination widget based on the new data
> stores
> >>         >> would be sufficient?  Code size here would be a major factor.
> >>          Such a
> >>         >> light widget could also be popular on the desktop.  Perhaps
> >>         this fits
> >>         >> into the new grid architecture, but I worry that it would be
> >>         difficult
> >>         >> to meet conflicting goals of code size and flexibility.
> >>         >>
> >>         >> -Adam
> >>         >>
> >>         >> 2010/10/5 Evan Huang <evanhuangwei at gmail.com
> >>         <mailto:evanhuangwei at gmail.com>>:
> >>         >> > Hi Shane,
> >>         >> > Recalling this thread, I just got some new thoughts, please
> >>         correct me
> >>         >> > if
> >>         >> > any inappropriateness(sorry for getting back late as I only
> >>         recently got
> >>         >> > a
> >>         >> > chance to explore the emerging mobile world):
> >>         >> > So how about adding following two pieces to our mobile
> >>         plan? If possible
> >>         >> > I'd
> >>         >> > like to spend my partial time on them after v.1.6(will need
> >>         to get
> >>         >> > support
> >>         >> > from my boss ;-) )
> >>         >> > 1. dojox.mobile.Gird
> >>         >> > 2. dojox.mobile.Charting
> >>         >> > I think both of them are very important to mobile, will
> >>         help us catch up
> >>         >> > and
> >>         >> > may also help make dojox.mobile outstanding(at least I
> >>         haven't seen any
> >>         >> > similar activities yet in JQTouch, ShenCha...)
> >>         >> > For #1, we may try to leverage the in-progress new Grid
> >>         work to figure
> >>         >> > out a
> >>         >> > lightweight mobile version(still = core + a smaller set of
> >>         features)
> >>         >> > For #2, more discussions are still needed, but since we've
> >>         already got
> >>         >> > an
> >>         >> > excellent dojox.charting framework, we may start by reusing
> >>         the canvas
> >>         >> > impl
> >>         >> > with possible changes to make it more suitable for mobile.
> >>         >> > It's still not clear yet but I hope we could reuse most
> >>         corresponding
> >>         >> > code
> >>         >> > in desktop version for #1 and #2. Once
> >>         the interesting touch & gesture
> >>         >> > event
> >>         >> > layer were ready, we can then plug it in since HTML event
> >>         handling is
> >>         >> > already separately encapsulated in new Grid(FIXME - the
> >>         same for
> >>         >> > Charting?)
> >>         >> > As discussed previously, in the future we may have two
> typical
> >>         >> > usage scenario for dojox.mobile:
> >>         >> >     1. Within html page in mobile browsers
> >>         >> >     2. Run as native app in mobile(with help from some cool
> >>         tools like
> >>         >> > PhoneGap),
> >>         >> > I'm optimistic that mobile Grid & Charting will apply well
> >>         for the both
> >>         >> > cases.
> >>         >> > Most importantly, since mobile Grid & Charting both require
> >>         significant
> >>         >> > efforts, we really need to ensure they worth the investment
> >>         before hand.
> >>         >> > At last, following below are some existing mobile
> >>         chartings, though most
> >>         >> > of
> >>         >> > them are still native app specific to a certain platform, I
> >>         think we can
> >>         >> > get
> >>         >> > some inspiration anyway.
> >>         >> > http://designingwebinterfaces.com/mobile_chart_options
> >>         >> >
> http://www.zingchart.com/flash-and-html5-canvas/#compatibility
> >>         >> > http://www.keepedge.com/
> >>         >> > http://code.google.com/p/core-plot/
> >>         >> > http://code.google.com/p/s7graphview/
> >>         >> > http://www.componentone.com/SuperProducts/StudioMobile/
> >>         >> > http://www.artfulbits.com/Android/aiCharts.aspx
> >>         >> > http://www.tmssoftware.com/site/mobilechart.asp
> >>         >> > http://www.igindex.co.uk/spread-betting/mobile-charts.html
> >>         >> > Regards!
> >>         >> > - Evan
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> >
> >>         >> > On 8/18/10 12:43 AM, Shane O'Sullivan wrote:
> >>         >> >> Hi all,
> >>         >> >>
> >>         >> >> I'm very worried about Dojo and the mobile space.  As far
> >>         as I can
> >>         >> >> see, we are still lacking anything resembling a cohesive
> >>         strategy, and
> >>         >> >> are falling further and further behind.
> >>         >> >>
> >>         >> >> I appreciate that everyone is busy, and that this economy
> >>         is forcing
> >>         >> >> everyone, me included, to focus on their day jobs.
> >>          However, unless
> >>         >> >> enough people are interested in making Dojo a killer on
> >>         mobile, and
> >>         >> >> have the time to donate, we might as well just admit we're
> >>         going to
> >>         >> >> focus on desktop and leave it be.
> >>         >> >>
> >>         >> >> I think dojox.mobile is a great start, and I very much
> >>         want to make it
> >>         >> >> (under whatever moniker) the best mobile toolkit out
> >>         there.  The work
> >>         >> >> the Uxebu guys are doing to customize Dojo for each
> >>         platform is great
> >>         >> >> too, and very much needed.
> >>         >> >>
> >>         >> >> However, what users want is a solid framework and great
> >>         widgets.  We
> >>         >> >> don't have them yet, and at the current rate, I don't
> >>         think we will
> >>         >> >> have them this side of 2012.
> >>         >> >>
> >>         >> >> So, I'm willing to put a good amount of my time into
> >>         dojox.mobile, but
> >>         >> >> unless others have time to contribute it'll never be
> >>         anything close to
> >>         >> >> world class.  At the recent London mobile meet we had a
> good
> >>         >> >> discussion about where Dojo should go, but unfortunately
> >>         no one
> >>         >> >> offered to actually write code for dojox.mobile.
> >>         >> >>
> >>         >> >> Can I get a show of hands?  Alternatively, a simple "I
> >>         don't have the
> >>         >> >> time" will do too.  I need to know if I'll be wasting my
> >>         time on a
> >>         >> >> project that no one else has time to work on, or if there
> >>         are 4 or 5
> >>         >> >> others who have the scope to build something great.
> >>         >> >>
> >>         >> >> Thanks
> >>         >> >>
> >>         >> >> Shane
> >>         >> >> _______________________________________________
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