[dojo-contributors] Dojo marketing

Dylan Schiemann mail at dylans.org
Tue Oct 7 08:36:03 EDT 2008

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I hit send too soon... I agree with much of what you said here, and this
was a general invite to anyone that was following along.

Also, with regards to the DDD IV comment, we're getting much closer, and
can use help from anyone that is interested in making that idea become real.

- -Dylan

Dylan Schiemann wrote:
> I think we're having a set of parallel conversations.  I'd like to start
> a dojo-marketing mailing list/group.
> If you're interested, please let me know and I'll add you to the list.
> Regards,
> -Dylan
> Rawld Gill wrote:
>> It seems to me that there are two issues being discussed in this thread:
>> 1.	Should some min-sized package be advertized and released.
>> 2.	How can Dojo marketing be improved to better compete with the likes
>> of jquery.
>> While [1] is almost certainly _part_ of the answer to [2], it is not
>> anywhere near the complete answer. And while "competing with jquery" is
>> important, the real question ought to be, "how can Dojo marketing be
>> improved to result in Dojo becoming the dominate open source JavaScript
>> toolkit?"
>> I tried really hard in the introduction to _Mastering Dojo_ to make the
>> point that "Although a [lighter library] may be easier to digest on day one
>> (and we dispute even this), three or six months later when you need a
>> capability that the library does not provide, you are left with either
>> learning another library or implementing something yourself.  Both of these
>> choices imply much more complexity and cost than using Dojo from the
>> beginning." From where I sit, this is _the_ key attribute that makes Dojo my
>> toolkit of choice. 
>> We certainly must, to the max extent possible, make easy things easy (as
>> Eugene and others have pointed out). But equally important, we have to
>> advertise that Dojo can do things that other toolkits cannot; that is, make
>> hard things possible (or even easy).
>> I good way to do this is put the reader in pain, and then rescue them with
>> Dojo.  For example, "Most JavaScript libraries have given no thought to
>> i18n, forcing you to start all over when you're ready to move your
>> application to international markets {ouch, pain!).  Dojo is different.
>> Since Dojo includes i18n support throughout, any Dojo-based application
>> automatically includes i18n capabilities.for free! (rescue with dojo)."
>> [This is just a rough example off the top of my head that needs tuning.]
>> The key point here is that pain-rescue messaging is much more effective than
>> (e.g.) "dojo has i18n".
>> Ideally, we should come up with the key selling points, and sell dojo. I
>> know that some are doing this at conferences, and Craig, Alex, and I
>> certainly tried in the book, but this needs to be done at every level.
>> Certainly the web site is not accomplishing this goal today. For example,
>> "recent forum posts" is not the best use of home page space.
>> Back at ddd IV (last Feb), there was a great presentation given on marketing
>> plans. What happened to these?
>> I propose three action items:
>> 1.	We decide the key selling points.
>> 2.	We decide who we are trying to reach with these selling points. I
>> think this has been done...something like programmers, managers, and
>> executives.
>> 3.	We prominently message the selling points to the audience on the
>> home page.
>> As to a min-size package, I think there are some technical issues and
>> choices to get this really correct. For example, Alex noted "So there are
>> several "layers" of stuff here, and they don't compose well out of the box
>> if you offer them *really* separately". Why is this so? Could some
>> refactoring/redesign be accomplished to make this not so? But, for the
>> moment, Pete's package accomplishes at least the 90% solution so it's
>> probably not a burning issue.
>> Best,
>> Rawld
>> [Since this is my first post...for those who don't already know me.my name
>> is Rawld Gill and I was one of the authors on the Pragmatic Book, _Mastering
>> Dojo_.  I'm an old guy like Bill (sorry Bill) and have been building large
>> sware systems for 25+ years.]
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