[dojo-contributors] Dojo marketing

Dylan Schiemann mail at dylans.org
Tue Oct 7 08:34:53 EDT 2008

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I think we're having a set of parallel conversations.  I'd like to start
a dojo-marketing mailing list/group.

If you're interested, please let me know and I'll add you to the list.

- -Dylan

Rawld Gill wrote:
> It seems to me that there are two issues being discussed in this thread:
> 1.	Should some min-sized package be advertized and released.
> 2.	How can Dojo marketing be improved to better compete with the likes
> of jquery.
> While [1] is almost certainly _part_ of the answer to [2], it is not
> anywhere near the complete answer. And while "competing with jquery" is
> important, the real question ought to be, "how can Dojo marketing be
> improved to result in Dojo becoming the dominate open source JavaScript
> toolkit?"
> I tried really hard in the introduction to _Mastering Dojo_ to make the
> point that "Although a [lighter library] may be easier to digest on day one
> (and we dispute even this), three or six months later when you need a
> capability that the library does not provide, you are left with either
> learning another library or implementing something yourself.  Both of these
> choices imply much more complexity and cost than using Dojo from the
> beginning." From where I sit, this is _the_ key attribute that makes Dojo my
> toolkit of choice. 
> We certainly must, to the max extent possible, make easy things easy (as
> Eugene and others have pointed out). But equally important, we have to
> advertise that Dojo can do things that other toolkits cannot; that is, make
> hard things possible (or even easy).
> I good way to do this is put the reader in pain, and then rescue them with
> Dojo.  For example, "Most JavaScript libraries have given no thought to
> i18n, forcing you to start all over when you're ready to move your
> application to international markets {ouch, pain!).  Dojo is different.
> Since Dojo includes i18n support throughout, any Dojo-based application
> automatically includes i18n capabilities.for free! (rescue with dojo)."
> [This is just a rough example off the top of my head that needs tuning.]
> The key point here is that pain-rescue messaging is much more effective than
> (e.g.) "dojo has i18n".
> Ideally, we should come up with the key selling points, and sell dojo. I
> know that some are doing this at conferences, and Craig, Alex, and I
> certainly tried in the book, but this needs to be done at every level.
> Certainly the web site is not accomplishing this goal today. For example,
> "recent forum posts" is not the best use of home page space.
> Back at ddd IV (last Feb), there was a great presentation given on marketing
> plans. What happened to these?
> I propose three action items:
> 1.	We decide the key selling points.
> 2.	We decide who we are trying to reach with these selling points. I
> think this has been done...something like programmers, managers, and
> executives.
> 3.	We prominently message the selling points to the audience on the
> home page.
> As to a min-size package, I think there are some technical issues and
> choices to get this really correct. For example, Alex noted "So there are
> several "layers" of stuff here, and they don't compose well out of the box
> if you offer them *really* separately". Why is this so? Could some
> refactoring/redesign be accomplished to make this not so? But, for the
> moment, Pete's package accomplishes at least the 90% solution so it's
> probably not a burning issue.
> Best,
> Rawld
> [Since this is my first post...for those who don't already know me.my name
> is Rawld Gill and I was one of the authors on the Pragmatic Book, _Mastering
> Dojo_.  I'm an old guy like Bill (sorry Bill) and have been building large
> sware systems for 25+ years.]
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> dojo-contributors at dojotoolkit.org
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