[dojo-contributors] Dojo marketing

Peter E Higgins dante at dojotoolkit.org
Mon Oct 6 09:38:42 EDT 2008

my $0.02US inline:

Alex Russell wrote:
> On Oct 5, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Adam L. Peller wrote:
> > Back in the 0.9 days, we had a plan to make just dojo.js, the ~25k  
> > version,
> > available for download at the main page.  Was there a reason we  
> > didn't go
> > through with it?
> Not that I know of. Probably got lost in the site re-design.
Yah it seems a simple oversight, and as seen, the uxebu folk have really
taken this to the next level. There is this random grey area between
tiny core functionality and fully featured core functionality -- would a
standlone dojo.js need to ever include the package system? other than
XHR, we don't use deferred inside base? dojo.declare - only for
_Animation. How small would a dojo.js be if those were cut?  It would be
a fun experiment, but not something I care to do personally because,
quite frankly, 26k is small enough for me. It is less than 1 second
overhead, even on a bad day here in rural tennnesse, especially if you
consider most people don't clear caches and religiously as we do.
dojo.js is this 'contract' of API, and we'd be pulling in additional
resource requirements to document and explain anything else.

"d.js" is roughtly 100k (33k on the wire), which to some is entirely
acceptable, and it includes a number of things I find myself using often
(but not often enough to warrent "core"): dojo.fx (y .easing),
dojo.io.script, Nodelist-html, Nodelist-fx ...

So +1 on dojo.js (26k) being made available as-is as a single download,
and ddotjs morph into a core marketing thing with a web-build included,
keeping the output down to a single file download (and an nls/ folder in
the case of including Dijit stuff). ddotjs makes a good demo site
showing off Core functionality, and is certainly useful for having as a
single file download, but I'd be reluctant to stray away from (on our
part) the contract that base has defined as 'officially supported'.
Beauty is, uxebu can very easily provide the file/download/site and
slurp just Core API/Book docs from us, and get the functionality and API
away from the perceived "bloatyness" of the entire toolkit.
> >  With all the hype JQuery has been getting, I think it's
> > more urgent than ever to separate base from the rest of the  
> > toolkit.  How
> > about we just offer up dojo.js on the landing page in a separate box  
> > (first,
> > so the first thing people see is something SMALL) then have the  
> > current
> > download buttons for "dojo, dijit, dojox" and shrinksafe below it?   
> > Long
> > term, I wonder if it makes more sense to split out dijit, too, so  
> > people
> > know what they're getting.
> So there are several "layers" of stuff here, and they don't compose  
> well out of the box if you offer them *really* separately:
>     dojo.js
>     dojo/*
>     dijit/*
>     dojox/*
> But if you say "dojo.js OR dojo/*", it gets a lot simpler, and zip  
> files can be easily made for each.
Right. Maintain what dojo.js means, provide it standalone, and offer
namespace/* as namespace.zip for those interested. I suggest we retain
the -src archive, as that is still the end result for people wanting to
take full advantage of Dojo. 
> Pete: what's our plan for mini w/ 1.2? Could we take the dist dirs for  
> each project and do this with them post-mini shrinking?
So we pushed mini into the official release, and splitting the projects
into pieces would be trivial, but that just means more download options
we get to explain. I'm not opposed, as long as we make it clear enough
to all users. Seems the most important issue here is making dojo.js
available and marketing it as a small utility lib which you can build
upon, and reference the rest of Core, Dijit and DojoX as "plugins" (that
just co-incidentally work with our uber-cool package and build system if
you happen to put all the files in the right folders ;) )
> > We can also provide the CDN reference as a teaser, which has an even  
> > smaller
> > footprint :-)  Right now, that's hidden several links deep.  We  
> > could just
> > put the CDN tag(s) in the box.
> +1 !!
+1 - The Google CDN this go-around is 100% accurate, and if I'm not
mistaken sending proper utf-8 encoding for our nls stuff.
> > Current download landing page:
> > http://dojotoolkit.org/downloads
> > We can refine this with the release of the new site.   Unless I hear  
> > any
> > objections, I'll take a stab at this tonight.
> Sounds like a great idea. We should likely even put this on the front-
> page somewhere.
> Regards
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