[dojo-contributors] BorderContainer etc. styling

Adam L. Peller adam at peller.org
Thu May 22 11:29:50 EDT 2008

On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 7:02 AM, Bill Keese <bill at dojotoolkit.org> wrote:

> in general, this should make BorderContainer layouts prettier,
> regardless of whether or not they have resizable panes.

I disagree, but you're the BDFL.  I'd argue you're adding something to the
layout algorithm that didn't exist before that only makes it 'prettier' in
certain situations.

> I agree that 'magic' to connect the concepts of container margins with
> > panel spacers, or 'gutters' in designer-speak, doesn't feel right.  I
> > like the idea of an attribute (on the container should be sufficient? or
> > maybe child selector CSS?) to control this behavior, but requiring users
> > to put in a setting to get the 1.1 behavior might be a viewed as a
> > breaking change.  Is it possible we could flip the logic around and have
> > the 1.1 behavior be the default?  gutters=true?
> No, unfortunately that breaks the principle of "looks good out of the box".

...pitted against the principle of stability.  I think you can require an
attribute and still be in the 'box'.    My whole argument is based
on BorderContainer being from all other widgets, where pixel placement isn't
guaranteed to stay the same, so I know I'll lose that argument.

Remember that we guarantee "your site will still work after upgrading
> dojo; you don't have to change your code".  We never said "it'll look
> exactly the same".  That doesn't mean that users won't complain but at
> least we aren't breaking our promise.

Well, if I had a carefully crafted layout and suddenly saw gaps in it, I
don't think I'd say it looks good.  Instead of the looks good argument, I
think it's more accurate to say that we're changing the rules and some
people will just have to deal with the pain of porting their layouts.
 Again.  Just not that much this time.

I'm not necessarily against having a gutters= flag, but would have to
> think about what it means... presumably both the outer gutters
> (implemented as padding on the BorderContainer dom node), and the
> gutters between panes would disappear.... but then that still leaves the
> original problems with nested borders, and the missing borders on
> splitters.

The outer gutters aren't called gutters; they're called margins, iirc.
 They're two separate concepts to graphic designers, and I think we should
follow that lead.  Technically, gutters are only the vertical spaces.  I'm
not sure whether it's worth our while to make a distinction between vertical
and horizontal, but I definitely think the concept should be different than
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