[dojo-contributors] squid theme

Owen Williams owen at smartsoul.com
Fri Aug 17 12:54:09 EDT 2007

I find myself agreeing more with Sam than with Tom -- I think  
dojo.css is doing too much to be generally useful, especially with  
regard to tables.  I would recommend (in 1.0, anyway) that we do  
*not* assume that dojo.css has been included, and instead include any  
rules we need from there in dijit.css.  Our examples may or may not  
include dojo.css, but we should not necessarily be telling other  
users of dojo that they need to include it.

dojo.css is really a lightweight "theme" for normal web pages -- it's  
not simply a "reset" (as in yui-reset.css) as I and many others have  
assumed.  As such, I don't think users of dojo should need to include  
it.  Having to turn off a bunch of stylistic decisions is a pain, and  
anyone who has their own branded look will most likely immediately  
have to turn off some of those rules from dojo.css.

I do agree with Tom that dijit needs to be coded defensively, within  
reason.  However, I still feel that the troublesome rules for TABLE  
should be taken out of dojo.css, if we're expecting anyone to use it  
on their own pages.

And a different name may be warranted, as "dojo.css" makes it seem  
like something that *has* to be included.


On Aug 17, 2007, at 9:13 AM, Tom Trenka wrote:

> It's been probably the most controversial part of dojo.css, that's  
> for sure.  But the goal of dojo.css isn't to provide a baseline for  
> themers; it's to provide a quick stylesheet that anyone can use,  
> and not have the site look like ass (for lack of a better term).   
> The table style defs in it make the assumption that you're using a  
> table for its stated purpose, which is data presentation.
> If you're using a table for layout, then IMHO you'd be resetting it  
> for your needs anyways.  In fact, after I sent that email, i  
> realized that probably you'd only want to reset it for things  
> specific to your theme, and not overall.  It makes for a small  
> amount of additional work, but then you need to remember as well  
> that other stylesheets might be in play that you have absolutely no  
> control over, and you'll probably want to make sure you write your  
> theme accordingly ( i.e. there might be other stylesheets doing  
> similar things to tables).  This was the point I was making a long  
> time ago to both Torrey and Owen (Tundra and Noir, respectively),  
> and while Owen had some issues with it, Torrey immediately  
> understood what I was getting at, and wrote Tundra accordingly.
> trt
> On 8/17/07, sam foster <potatosculptor at gmail.com > wrote:
> > Doing that should counter-act the default table definitions set  
> up in
> > dojo.css .
> I guess I'm just at odds with this philosophically. While the reset of
> the element margins/padding can be viewed as a good service, bleeding
> into how a page looks crosses the line for me. Its no longer helping,
> its getting in the way. Yes I can override, the question is why should
> I have to? Augmenting defaults like this is just like saying
> String.prototype.trim = function() { .. }. Handy, but invasive.
> Provided I can always not include dojo.css, I dont feel strongly
> enough about it though to dig up what Im sure was a long-made
> decision, this is just some feedback from one themer. I assume if the
> weight of community feedback asks for a change, we'll reconsider at
> that point.
> Sam
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