[dojo-contributors] Re: dojo.lang.isUndefined()

Alex Russell alex at dojotoolkit.org
Fri Jun 30 21:12:44 EDT 2006

On Friday 30 June 2006 6:09 pm, Dean Edwards wrote:
> Alex Russell wrote:
> > On Friday 30 June 2006 8:17 am, Dean Edwards wrote:
> >> On 30/06/06, Tom Trenka <ttrenka at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> ...so no, we're not really supporting IE 5.0.
> >>
> >> I'm suprised. IE5.0 has a larger user base than Opera/Konqueror
> >> combined. Peculiarly, it also has a larger user base than IE5.5
> >> [1].
> >
> > That's the power of being the default install browser on an OS when
> > it goes RTM, and why the pathetic joke that is IE 7 is going to be
> > another long-term albatros since it'll the be the RTM browser for
> > Vista.
> Politics?

Don't think so, it's just the way it is. Every time I've talked to folks 
on the IE team, they seem well-intentioned and totally at the mercy of 
machinery over which they have no control. It's really dispiriting.

Obviously they don't put it that way, and they are trying as hard as 
they can, but I think it's pretty clear how the lines are drawn.

> This to me is a very crucial decision in designing and implementing a
> library.
> In real terms, the difference between supporting IE5.0 and IE5.5 is
> it's differing support for core JavaScript. Namely, the various Array
> methods (pop/push etc) and more importantly, Function.apply/call. In
> terms of HTML/CSS there are few differences. So DHTML is easy.
> To support IE5.0 all you have to do is add support for Array.push/pop
> et al and Function.apply/call.

That's not true at all. There are significant definciencies in various 
parts of older JScript engines, including core parsing bugs, 
uncatchable exceptions, and issues with instanceof. The DOM limitations 
and associated network level issues are also problematic.

> However, I'm assuming that you don't 
> want to mess with native objects, right?

IE 5.0 was released *last century* and AFAICT is out of support for all 
but the most gigantic and persistent Microsoft customers. You can't 
even *buy* an OS on the open market that runs it by default any more. 
We've gotta draw a line somewhere.


Alex Russell
alex at sitepen.com     A99F 8785 F491 D5FD 04D7 ACD9 4158 FFDF 2894 6876
alex at dojotoolkit.org BE03 E88D EABB 2116 CC49 8259 CF78 E242 59C3 9723
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